I came across Allig's blog & it was one of the most interesting blogs that I have read maybe that's because she is talking about my country & also because I felt a negative power in between her words & I would like to clarify some points;
1. I left Egypt on the 23rd of June but before leaving I got the chance to meet Allig, I also knew that she was a Jewish & I wasn't the only one that knew that, I can say that a big percentage of AIESEC Egypt knew that she was a Jewish & I honestly didn't have any problem with her, she seemed like a nice person.
2. I find it difficult for me to understand why she only focus on the negative points, Did the whole 2 months traineeships were just about torturing her because she is a Jew? Didn't she have any good experiences?
also noticed that she is giving herself a right of sticking to her opinion & the data that she has & criticizing other people for giving themselves the same right, for example about the war of 73 she has the correct information while the assumptions that the Egyptians make are just bullshit . I also have a comment on the 73 war too if we lost at 73 as she says why did they ever give us Sinai back even at 79 why didn't they keep it until now?
3. Also I think we should take care of our language , it's not a nice world to be said that "Israel kicked Egypt's ass" Even if it's true & she is sure about it.
4.She also said that there she has never met an Israelin person that hate Arab people, I don't think that assumption will stand strongly with the fact that the Israelian army is having a war with Palestine, Is it logical to say that an army is having a war with another country while in the meantime they really like each other very much?
5. She is also generalizing a lot of issues, hearing one story from one person doesn't mean that it's true neither that it's common for example that Muslims boys story that they make Christian girls convert by force, I think this is an unrealistic story I lived in Egypt for 20 years & I grew up in a Christian school & I have a lot of close Christian friends & especially in Egypt if a Christian girl converted to be Muslim than her family denies her forever. Do you think that Christian girls are that naive & Muslim boys just keep making tactics on how to convince the Christian girl to give up all her family & friend for him & another point that a lot of Muslims family doesn't like that their boy to get married to a Christian girl, for me I don't think it's even logical goal.
6. For homosexuality rights in Egypt, Egypt is a Muslim country & in the Islam Gays & lesbians are not recognized so it's logical for the gov't to forbid the existence of such an activity, my point is that even in the united states a lot of Christian churches doesn't give the lesbians & gays their full rights until now, they still can't marry in most of the parts in the united states. Each country is different from the other & that's the whole aim of Aiesec experience is to make us accept each others differences without criticizing in a humiliating way.
Finally I want to add that I have a clear distinction between Israel & the Judaism religion. I have no problem with Allig I just had some points that I needed to clarify so that the person that read her blog can also listen to the other side & make the decision for him or herself.
1. I left Egypt on the 23rd of June but before leaving I got the chance to meet Allig, I also knew that she was a Jewish & I wasn't the only one that knew that, I can say that a big percentage of AIESEC Egypt knew that she was a Jewish & I honestly didn't have any problem with her, she seemed like a nice person.
2. I find it difficult for me to understand why she only focus on the negative points, Did the whole 2 months traineeships were just about torturing her because she is a Jew? Didn't she have any good experiences?
also noticed that she is giving herself a right of sticking to her opinion & the data that she has & criticizing other people for giving themselves the same right, for example about the war of 73 she has the correct information while the assumptions that the Egyptians make are just bullshit . I also have a comment on the 73 war too if we lost at 73 as she says why did they ever give us Sinai back even at 79 why didn't they keep it until now?
3. Also I think we should take care of our language , it's not a nice world to be said that "Israel kicked Egypt's ass" Even if it's true & she is sure about it.
4.She also said that there she has never met an Israelin person that hate Arab people, I don't think that assumption will stand strongly with the fact that the Israelian army is having a war with Palestine, Is it logical to say that an army is having a war with another country while in the meantime they really like each other very much?
5. She is also generalizing a lot of issues, hearing one story from one person doesn't mean that it's true neither that it's common for example that Muslims boys story that they make Christian girls convert by force, I think this is an unrealistic story I lived in Egypt for 20 years & I grew up in a Christian school & I have a lot of close Christian friends & especially in Egypt if a Christian girl converted to be Muslim than her family denies her forever. Do you think that Christian girls are that naive & Muslim boys just keep making tactics on how to convince the Christian girl to give up all her family & friend for him & another point that a lot of Muslims family doesn't like that their boy to get married to a Christian girl, for me I don't think it's even logical goal.
6. For homosexuality rights in Egypt, Egypt is a Muslim country & in the Islam Gays & lesbians are not recognized so it's logical for the gov't to forbid the existence of such an activity, my point is that even in the united states a lot of Christian churches doesn't give the lesbians & gays their full rights until now, they still can't marry in most of the parts in the united states. Each country is different from the other & that's the whole aim of Aiesec experience is to make us accept each others differences without criticizing in a humiliating way.
Finally I want to add that I have a clear distinction between Israel & the Judaism religion. I have no problem with Allig I just had some points that I needed to clarify so that the person that read her blog can also listen to the other side & make the decision for him or herself.
13 Comments:
At 6:28 PM, Emir said…
I can't believe that someone can have all those WRONG informations whereas he was living there for couple of weeks !!!!!
At 8:47 PM, AlliG said…
1. I was told that no one knew I was jewish... things would have been much easier had I known, and I wish that I had been told that.
2. I noted at the beginning of my blog that I did have nice experiences as well, but felt compelled to publish the excerpts regarding antisemitism, since that was my unique experience.
Also, when Sadat approached Israel to make peace in 79 (a bold and respectable move that should be lauded by egyptians), Israel returned the sinai.
4. I am sorry about the language. Again, if you read my first entry, these emails were originally to my friends and family, so I didn't exactly, um, censor my language. When I decided to post excerpts from my emails, I decided that I could edit them to death, or not at all. So I went with not at all, and I'm sorry if my language was offensive. Many times it was just me rambling to my family.
5a. I never said that. Please reread. My point was that while I'm sure many, many Israelis DO hate Arabs, there is a huge section of society working for peace, and a large stream of discourse evaluating the injustices done to the palestinians. so, upon coming to egypt, i thought i would experience similar levels of hatred vs. tolerance. i was disappointed, and for the most part only encountered intolerance.
5b. Again, I noted in my first post that these were emails to my friends and family. Perhaps I should have been more clear that this means that I was relating what I saw/heard. Obviously, I cannot make judgements on the christian/muslim issue after only 2.5 months in egypt.
6. Yes, I know USA is having problems with gay rights as well, and that also disappoints me personally.
I'm glad you can make the distinction between Jews/Israelis. I met too many people who couldn't.
At 11:06 AM, gannat said…
Dear Allig,
For the point 5a; when you are in the stronger position it's possible to feel sorry for the injustice that people in the weaker position are facing but when you are in a position facing injustice it's difficult for you to have any sympathy for the people who are giving you such a hard time & I’m not talking about myself neither my country because we don't have any problems with Israel now & there is a very good political relation between both our governments . But I think it's more logical for Egyptians to have more sympathy with the Palestinians because they are in the weakest position & they are facing injustice even some Israelis people agree on this point. As for peace we have a large percentage of the Arab world that would love to stop war between the Arab world & Palestine & as an evidence the Sadat move on 79 which I respect & appreciate ( but Israel didn't give us Sinai as a present it 's our right that they took & they had to give it back)
Finally I think that I’m being biased to my country & you are been biased to Israel too & both of us need to step in each other shoes & try to understand why the other think the way she, that's the only way to achieve common understanding of the problem & getting the whole pictures in our minds.
At 7:01 PM, AlliG said…
It is true that Israel is in a position of power in relation to Palestine and therefore it may be easier for groups of Israelis to sympathize with Palestinians. However, this is no way should translate to Egyptian antisemitism. Intolerance is never justifiable.
At 8:30 AM, Mohamed ElHabiby said…
Hi Gannat,
Washteeny Mooot, I hope everything is going great and you are lots of fun.
I went through allig posting and I was shocked from what I read as u was. And I agree with you on all what you said.
I had an Israeli Jewish friend when I was in the states and we spent 4 days going around Florida. We talked about everything in regard to the peace resolution, and at the end both of us learned the other person point view. It was a great experience for me because it was my first time for me to meet an Israeli citizen and it was his first time to meet an Egyptian. As for me I never had anything against Jewish people or any other religion, but I am against extremists of all religions.
To conclude I am very happy that Allig have published her experience and I hope she learned that not all Egyptians are the same and wars can’t be easily taken off from people’s mind.
Looking forward to see you soon,
Cheers,
Mohamed ElHabiby
At 10:19 AM, Superluli said…
Gannat, though i may not toally agree with all your opinions i would like to salute you for the amazing AIESEC spirit and amazing way of upholding the AIESEC Values.
I can really see the impact AIESEC has on individuals through you, and it is a pleasure to be part of that.
I am glad AIESEC made a difference at least in the life of one participant in this interesting debate :)
At 10:41 AM, gannat said…
Dear Allig,
I'm not justifying the anti-Semitism that some Egyptians have but I’m just explaining their point of views because we need to understand the problem before solving it.
Intolerance means "disapproving of or refusing to accept ideas or ways of behaving that are different from your own" & you are a tolerant person & those Egyptians differences is that they are intolerant, so can't you accept them?
At 11:30 PM, Dody G. said…
"But I think it's more logical for Egyptians to have more sympathy with the Palestinians because they are in the weakest position & they are facing injustice even some Israelis people agree on this point."
One thing though, the injustice to the people of Palestine is not exclusively done by Israel. From 1948 to 1968, Gaza was occupied by Egypt and West Bank was occupied Jordan. Before that the whole area was under British rule.
The Israel occupation of Gaza and West Bank would not have happened had the Six Days War in 1968 didn't happen (which Egypt, Jordan, Syria shared the blame).
PLO under Arafat was terrible for Palestine. The first Intifada in 1986 was very successful (which was started by Palestinian throwing rocks (no suicide bombings); PLO was still in Tunisia); but Arafat rejection to offer in Camp David 2000 and his Intifada 2 were a disaster. Had he accepted or countered offered, we would have had 100% of Gaza and 98% of West Bank under a new Palestine state by now.
5 years forward, now, we are seeing Gaza under 100% control of Palestine. We will probably see a full Palestine state comprised of Gaza and West Bank before the end of this decade, 10 years later after Camp David 2000.
At 9:08 AM, Superluli said…
Dody, egyptians never get the full story here about palestine/israel. Too much brainwashing is involved from the government side.
Since i was educated in a school that was not egyptian run, i had the privilege of seeing a totally new outlook to the palestinian/israeli conflict.
That is the main reason why i may not be as passionate as gannat about the suffering palestinians.
Nevertheless i still feel utmost sympathy, remorse and responisbility for every human being(regardless of race,religion,or nationality) that looses his/her life over a piece of land,or for the cause of creating more boundaries, and more sensitivities that make it harder for us to achive peace and to benefit from our diverse contributions we could add to this world.
At 11:04 AM, yasmine said…
whats your number.. can you please email it to me!!!
i accidently deleted your voice mail
At 6:22 AM, Tamer Zikry said…
Just for the sake of accuracy...Gaza and the West Bank were under egyptian and Jordanian rule since there was no Palestenian state or Palestenian governmental structure as we have now. Therefore it was done out of support for the Palestinians.
To add to all, the 1967 war was started in attempt to give back the Palestinians what is considered by them and the Arab governments of that time as palestinian land, which was called israel starting May 1948.
At 6:22 AM, Tamer Zikry said…
Just for the sake of accuracy...Gaza and the West Bank were under egyptian and Jordanian rule since there was no Palestenian state or Palestenian governmental structure as we have now. Therefore it was done out of support for the Palestinians.
To add to all, the 1967 war was started in attempt to give back the Palestinians what is considered by them and the Arab governments of that time as palestinian land, which was called israel starting May 1948.
At 4:35 PM, AlliG said…
Thank you Dody!! Facts many people overlook...
Tamer, I don't think Egypt and Jordan were totally altruistic in their aims with the territories. Sadly, I don't think that's the case with any government. (Such as right now, when Bush claims he's trying to help the Iraqi people. yeah right.) And then there's the issue that Egypt and Jordan wouldn't take the land for the past few decades if it were handed to them on a silver platter, and if their aims were to help the palestinian people, they would certainly want it back again.
Also, regardless of the reason for attack, Dody's point on the 67 war holds true.
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